Possession meets depression // Talk to Me

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Hey, I'm Dahlia. And I'm Alma. Welcome to the Gory Details podcast where we discuss horror from every angle. We break it down with humor, sarcasm, and curiosity looking at what scares and excites us most, what gets ignored, and the people shaping the genre right now. Well, Alma, we are getting into so we did take a break for a week. Um, and so we are going to be missing one episode out of September, but the month of September is all about possession. You chose this. Yeah, you chose this topic.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

And um it just came up like this, like, you know, we were thinking about subjects, and I was like, possession. And I could think of a hundred possession movies.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

So oh yeah. I absolutely, because it it's so many different kinds of possession. We could have like demonic possession, ghost possession, we can have possession of an object, possession of a person. I mean, there's so many different ways we can um, you know, enjoy this subgenre of horror and at the same time also become creeped out. And then in this case, this movie, this week, we have uh Talk to Me. Talk to Me is gonna be our first movie. So talk to me about it, Alma. No, I'm just kidding. Um Talk to You. Sure. Yeah. Uh why did you choose this movie? I'm curious.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

The first thing I thought of was because I'm trying to pick movies that are different. And when I thought of possession, I thought, okay, first one I thought of, honestly, was The Exorcism of Emily Rose. That one, it just is always the first one that pops into my head. It's probably one of the first ones that I really, really enjoyed after the exorcism, um, the exorcist. So I just wanted to pick something different. And this one had many possessions. So that's the only reason I thought, let's just do this one because there's like several, you know, there's many to choose from. I didn't think of it like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

No, you are correct. There is more than one person getting possessed in this movie, and we'll get into it. Um, but I didn't even think of it like that. I just thought of it as the way it's for me framed, um, the subject matter. But I like that you said it's because a lot of people are getting possessed, and they are. So, all right, let's dive into it. Talk to me uh is this movie. I saw two dates, 2022 and 2023. That's the time frame it came out. Um on Rotten Tomatoes, we have been choosing movies that have been ranking pretty damn good. This one is 94% on Rotten Tomatoes. That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. Um, and as far as IMDB, IMDB says when a group of friends discover how to conjure spirits using an embalmed hand, they become hooked on the new thrill until one of them goes too far and unleashes terrifying supernatural forces. I think I like that one. That's a pretty good description. Um Yeah. I would say so. Now, yeah. All right, who wrote it, who directed it, who's in it?

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Tell me all that good stuff, I'm all right, is written by Danny Philippo, Bill Hinsman, and Daly Pearson, and directed by both Danny Philippo and Michael Philippo. Um it stars Mia, uh played by Sophie Wilde. Uh Joe Bird plays Riley, Jade is played by Alexandra Jensen, and The Mom Sue is played by Miranda Otto.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Cool. So actually I that sounded weird the way I said that. Cool. Um, I just I was just gonna uh comment on um the performances. I thought they were really really good. And this is a young cast. They're supposed to be teenagers, young 20, probably around there. Well, I know they're teenagers, but I they're a couple of characters. Yeah. Jumping into this movie, I'm gonna say everything that I'm gonna speak about this movie as far as my personal opinions, obviously this is what it's all about. Everybody takes a movie differently, is going to be completely framed by the fact that I am someone looking at this as someone who has dealt with loss and depression. And so I'm gonna try very hard to not have this be a personal uh blog. I told myself. I was like, Dahlia, don't make this all about you. Let's talk about the movie. So I'm but I'm gonna I'm I am going ahead and um letting you all know that though, because that's where it's coming from. It's that's where my speaking about this movie is coming from, from that place. Um, because we are we're talking we're talking about Mia. She is the uh she's I think she what is she 17, 18 years old. She's lost her mother um due to uh overdose, possible suicide, and it's been two years, so we're coming on that anniversary, and we also have this young teenage teenager who is dealing with depression of her own. And then we have this story of uh being possessed by spirits. So it's kind of a fun way, I guess you could say, to re to reintroduce this subject or this topic of possession. It's like, oh, you know, that's a cool horror movie theme. Um, it's supernatural. But then at the same time, we're having these real life things going on at the same time. Someone dealing with grief, someone dealing with a, you know, there's uh suicide, uh, there's, you know, all these other things going on. So you put the two together and you have this movie that's really complex. And so I sat here with all of that. But also, I will admit I enjoyed the movie, you know. I I I don't I'm talking too much. I don't know. How do you how do you feel?

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Well, first of all, I had not I did not know that you hadn't seen the movie before. The first thing that popped up into my head when I thought of the movie was just thinking about the multiple possessions and not thinking about the the background of it or what goes on in the beginning of the movie or anything like that. The only thing that I thought of was multiple possessions, and so therefore I chose it. I think I would not have chosen it if I had sat with the movie and thought, okay, what happens at the beginning of the movie? And then what's going on in the rest of the movie? No, I just it just popped into my head and therefore I chose it.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Yeah, that's kind of how I do with movies, and I've only seen it one time. Uh-huh. And so I just remembered I liked it. I liked the movie. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was different. Um, I thought the cast was great, great, you know, acting, uh, special effects, um, the story, it was engrossing. Um, it just was an all-around great, great movie for me. And I'm always surprised a little bit at the Rotten Tomatoes, but we have been doing really good choosing these movies that our audience loved. So that's that's also a bonus.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Well, to be fair, we're I'm I'm using the critics uh uh score. Oh yes. So yeah. Okay, that's true. That I should I wish I should be able to do that. I'm not saying that's true. Yeah, but I'm not saying that this movie wasn't enjoyed by the general audience, because it was. Um, but I just did want to make that uh that uh note that. But okay, so let's talk about the we we got that out of the way. We're gonna be talking about depression. So major trigger warnings here. If I would say if you are you really need to think hard about watching this movie, if you are in a place of of loss or depression or um you know, even just going beyond that. I did want to stop the movie when it first started, but I'm like, nope, I'm gonna watch it all the way through. And like I said, I ended up enjoying the movie, even though it is very complicated. So we have this possessed, no, it's not a possessed. How would you describe the hand? It's an embalmed hand.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

An embalmed hand, it's supposed to be the hand of a medium that's been chopped off and then embalmed and plastered. So it's like a physic it's it's a physical object that you if you touch the procedure. There we go. There you go. That's the word. You hold on to it, you say talk to me. Um, they burn a candle, and then you say let me in, and that spirit that you're seeing possesses you. And then you you turn off the candle and you let go when you want it to end. And they have a time limit where they're saying 90 seconds um is should be the maximum amount of time you do it because you don't want it to stay in you forever, is what they say.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Right, right. So it does, it's a there's a ritual behind it. It's very specific. You're gonna hold on to the hand, there's a candle. The candle gets blown out when the connection is supposed to be severed. We're only doing it for 90 seconds because if we go beyond that, it's gonna, you know, do there's there's there's shit that's gonna go down, which ends up going down. And um, so it has its rules. So right there, right off the bat, love it. It created rules of the possession, it created the object. And then um we have these, of course, I love that they introduce us to teens that are doing this because yeah, they would have fun with this. Oh, the older you get, the more hesitant you might get because you've watched enough horror stories and and stuff like that. But these kids are all like, they're all in there like uh for the rush and shit and for the uh peer pressure. Um, because there's a lot of peer pressure going on around this as well. Um, they're doing this at house parties and recording it on what did record it on Snapchat or TikTok. I don't know. But they are they got their phones, they got their phones, they're recording it, and then they're sharing it amongst their the peers, the young kids that think it's you know, both fake and real and fun. And then of course you have Mia who decides she wants to do it. Why does she decide to do it? It could be because she's kind of she's been depressed for two years. Yes, but also she's the outsider. That's nobody likes her because she's been depressed for two years. She's been no fun. She's the she's the kid whose mom died, and she is who knows, we didn't see it, but she's they make it seem like she's been walking around sulking this whole time. Well, of course, her mom died. But this is again from the viewpoint of kids. They're like, oh my god, her mom died. I get it. Get over it.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

She's so clingy and she's so weird, and it's uh, and she only has the one friend, so yeah, um, Jade and their best friends, and her little brother are her only family, even though she has a father that she's very distant from.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Yeah. But it's so she's going through all this, and that's so it it's sets it up perfectly for why she wants to do the um possession. Maybe she could talk to her mom. Also, you know, she doesn't look so much like the weird kid, you know, or the outsider. I mean, she still kind of looks like the weird kid because she's over here allowing herself to get possessed, but um, she's not gonna be the outsider. She kind of seems cool because she's letting them record her and do all this stuff as far as when she gets possessed. So it's it's inviting all this, okay, it benefits me. And also, you know, I'm not the weird chick anymore. Um, so she allows herself to get possessed, but it goes, is this the first time it goes, the first time it goes over, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

No, it doesn't until um the second time. Okay. It the second time they get together. So the first group is um a larger party. Uh they get together, and she's the first one to go. And the best thing about it, I think, is the fact that they have their phones because this is modern times. It's like, of course they're gonna have their phones. So are people seeing this? Um, is this something people are believing? Is it the the point though is the audience, the the teens, the people in the party, the people watching the videos, they're having a great time watching this. They don't know if it's real or not. But however, whatever's going off is freaky enough, you know, that they're just completely blown away by what's going on in front of them that's being recorded. And so the first time she does it, she sees someone. And this is when I why I led the effects, the the spirits. They're not just people sitting there looking ghostly or transparent or anything like that. These are the dead. She sees someone, she gets scared, but then she allows herself to do it. I think uh obviously, like Dahlia stated, it's peer pressure, it's it's the whole crowd there, it's the the fact that everybody's staring at her. Uh, she wants to be included, she wants to be, you know, part of the part of the party. And so she allows this entity to possess her, and it is really amazing. It just looks amazing, it looks scary, it looks just just it just, I don't even know the words to describe it.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

It just the shot that they're using and everything is the best because it is so smooth, the transitions they do between spirit and then what's there and what's not there, and then the the moment of possession. And it's just it's I think it's done really, really well. So if you haven't seen the movie, watch it. But and if you have seen the movie, I you know what I'm talking about because uh yeah, like me and Alba are here trying to find the words to describe it, and we're having troubles because it's just done so perfectly. Um the possession itself, again, only lasts for 90 seconds, and during that 90 seconds, um we have it's random, but that's the thing about it. It's supposed to be this random spirit, they don't know. And that's why when it happens to Mia and she actually gets a connection to her mom somehow, well backtrack it's different people who are who are doing it, the getting random spirits. And then when Mia does it, it is a random spirit at first, but then the longer and the more she does it, the more connection she has to her mom. To her mom.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Yeah. And that happens through this the second party, the second time they want to do it because she finds it so interesting. She she says it's amazing, the feeling. It's like they have this euphoric feeling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're all taking a little drug ride and it's it just lasts 90 seconds and and then they're done with it, and they don't think of the consequences. Um, even though this is a very scary thing, that they're what they're seeing, they just accept it. And the people experiencing accept it, but yet you know that most people don't believe it or they're not willing to try because they're just watching. It's only the only a few people that are doing it and taking turns doing it over and over again. And that that possession bride is what they're looking for and what they want to feel. And so the second party that is when um they make she finds that connection to her mom, and that's done through Riley. Jade's his big sister doesn't want him to do it, he wants to do it, he insists on trying to do it, and they decide, okay, well, let's let him do it, but for a shorter period of time. Let's do this for 60 seconds. No, 50 seconds, and then he decides that he wants to do it. So he's like, okay, let's just do it. So he gets that connection to the mother, and that's the reason that he goes over time because Mia wants to talk to her mother. She believes this to be true because she's already done the possession. She knows that she saw somebody, and she believes that Riley is seeing her mother and then possessed by her.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Yeah. So Mia, Mia believes what's going on. She sees someone that's possessed with her mom, that's only supposed to be doing it for 50 seconds, and it's like, whoa, wait a minute here. We're gonna go longer than the 50 seconds because this is my mom now. It's supposed to be random, but for some reason, my mom decided to come through. I'm gonna take this longer than 50 seconds, even though it's not my body that's being possessed for 50 seconds. You know, they agreed on 50 seconds because even though they're all teenagers, young, you know, maybe a young 20-something year old popped in there somewhere. I don't know, but they're they're young.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

But for some reason, 17, 18 years old. Yeah, Riley's only 15.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah, Riley is only 15, which, yeah, when you're an adult, it doesn't make that much of a difference. A two-year difference, you know, two, three-year difference. But when you're thinking about it at kids' ages, yeah, the even they are like, oh shit, he's only 15. Should we really allow him to do this? And of course, Big Sister's like, no, I'm in charge of him. He's a kid, we're not doing this. But Riley is still someone that's seeing everybody do all this and having fun with it. Of course he's gonna, he's a teenage kid. He's like, oh, this looks like fun. I'm gonna do it. This weird number. I keep bringing it up that 50 seconds because it's it's just it's funny how it these just random numbers are are graphs or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

It's a short difference. There's a small difference between 90 seconds and 50 seconds. It's not that big a deal, you would think. But in this, it's a huge difference.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

It really is. And there's an attraction to Riley um by the demons because he's so young and innocent. It's what I'm taking it as. The you have this young, innocent kid um willingly allowing himself to be possessed, and this must be like fucking candy to the demons, like, oh yeah, we got it, we got him, and that's the that's what ends up.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

So you're thinking these are demons because you keep saying demons instead of like ghosts or spirits or um I think they're demons when they are possessing when he's possessed.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yes. Um I think the the hand allowing yourself to get possessed is uh inviting anything. It's like you're it's up for grass. You're either gonna be possessed by a spirit, by some random ghost, by some whatever, or you're also allowing the potential to be possessed by a demon. And I think this is based off of vocal. vulnerabilities. So we have a young, innocent kid. That's like that's something very enticing to in this case demons. They're like, oh shit, let's go take advantage of that. Um in other cases it was just like someone inviting in like a random spirit. Is what it looked like. That's just from what my point of view, what I saw. But when you're allowing yourself to get possessed, it could be anything. Ghost, demon, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

That's true. You don't know if they're evil. You don't know if they're whatever it is in front of you is a complete stranger, at least a stranger. I'm calling the the entities strangers. Um but you don't know what it is. And I they don't discuss it. And I like that this was done from like the youth's point of view. The youth's I that's how old I am. I love that. That was funny. From their point of view they um they don't see all what could be evil in other movies they'll they'll talk about you don't know what it is that you're inviting. Don't ever allow anybody to come in. All that talk is thrown out the window and their their only talk is accept it let me in um or what do they say? They says let me in or I let you in. I let you in there you go and then the entity or whatever it is enters them and you don't know several things. This is why when she's speaking to her mother she doesn't know for sure if it's her actual mother because she's not seeing who's possessing it and that they have a a talk at one point where they're discussing they know everything. They can use that information to just tell you um what you want to hear.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Uh-huh and so we we don't know really if at that point that is who she was trying to talk to. Yeah. And we don't think her mom is telling the truth. Yeah. And we don't know if the mom is telling the truth either because her mom wants to also her mom would want to be communicating with Mia to talk to her because of the her the way that she died.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Yeah. And it's it's so layered it's so complicated because you have someone like even if you start to come into like let's say um the very specific in uh we're talking about the mom coming through and speaking to Mia. Now like you mentioned it could either be Mia's mom for real and talking to her or it could be something else entirely that's pretending to be Mia's mom. And we don't know. But and that's what's really great about it because you could have even Mia's mom who was obviously dealing with depression and other aspects of her mental health maybe it could still be Mia's mom that's uh misleading her because we know that Mia's mom was dealing with her own issues that maybe she wasn't seeing you know right from what's real and what's not real before she passed away. So it could also be that kind of tortured mind coming through as well. So I mean it could be that's what's really interesting about it. Because is it a is it a demon or is it a bad spirit or is it mom's actual um is it really the mom here that's coming through but mom is really confused you know because she hasn't you know broken out of that state that she was in during her life and death. So I love it.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

You're totally seeing these things yes if you're seeing these things those things mean that there's an afterlife and if these spirits are hanging out where are they going? They're stuck they're they're the tortured spirits they're the ones who aren't going anywhere. At one point they bring up being in limbo and so if you're speaking to those spirits if you if you think about the afterlife the limbo ones are the ones who are not moving on they're you know they're sticking around whatever they have to deal with is just torture for themselves. And so she's speaking to if she's speaking to her mother she's speaking to somebody who is hung around for a couple of years unable to communicate and unable to move on and is just reliving her her death and wanting to speak to her own daughter.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Yeah. And that's what makes it great because you like we especially as the movie goes on we see things happening like is this her mom or is this something pretending to be mom? Because it yeah because it could be either um we have uh so we have one, two three four uh it doesn't between four and I don't know four and eight people that are at the party it's the second night and they're just doing it over and over and over um taking turns. Well at least it looks like it the the little montage they did that they're just taking turns over and over and over doing it. Um and so that really speaks to how I think in this case I'm going back to the fact that it was the the teenagers doing this uh versus just specifically Mia but how really they had no ideas what they were doing. They had no um what's the word I'm looking for um they had no idea the consequences that's what I was trying to say and um it is like a drug for them enjoying it and I I just keep thinking about that because it is so true to teenagers and I think that's why this movie works because we're not sitting here thinking like oh I wouldn't have done that oh I wouldn't have done that. Well think about when you were a teenager. You didn't think about the consequences. You didn't think about oh yeah I am uh I am mortal something can happen to me. No, it's like you know we're just gonna do this thing that feels good that's fun. And then the whole recording thing behind it I mean the whole recording thing that they were doing is perfect. So already when you have to watch a horror movie you have to suspend disbelief so many times. And I think choosing kids to do this was perfect because I could do that. I could say oh I wouldn't do that because that's what I'm doing sitting there as an adult like why why the fuck is this going on? This is ridiculous. I why but it's like oh yeah that's right when you're young and when you're a kid when you're a teenager you're just like you're not thinking about that shit.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

So perfect that made me videos yeah yeah that made me go into this movie perfectly and so this second the second possession night is when the younger brother Riley he gets possessed and he ends up um going too long and the spirit in him smashes his head on the table violently smashing him against the wall um a table ends up his sister ends up running into the room. Yeah sorry I didn't mean to cut you off oh no the sister runs into the room ends up breaking her hand trying to keep him from smashing his head and this is when the movie gets the turn from this is all fun in games to something has happened now that um we're learning the consequences of what we're doing here. And so they have to call the ambulance and they need to come up with a story of how it is that this kid is um smashing his head violently and cracking his skull. Yeah you know because it looks like he's doing it yeah it it just looks like he's doing it and then and the adults would assume they were on drugs or somebody did this to him. And so of course the mom is angry of course um the sister's angry because nobody stopped him but she's more angry at her own best friend for letting him do it even though he is his own person right doing this thing.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Exactly nobody stopped him nobody stopped him um it looked like Alma said that the spirit is smashing his head over and over into these these hard objects the wall or the counter whatever I can't remember um but yeah it's the spirit doing it but when you look when you're looking at it from the outside when you're looking at it from these kids' point of view if you're looking at it from the camera point of view he's doing it to himself he's smashing his own head into all these things so it's it's very self-indurous it's very uh it's frightening because again is this a kid who is possessed that's having something happen to him or is he someone who doesn't believe in possession is he a kid who has had some kind of freak out and is trying to kill himself or hurt himself so that's the point of view that the mom was looking at it from it's like y'all gave him something or if we're not showing video y'all did something to him because he's got the shit beaten out of him. Yes and so and that the the the you brought it up already but he did they did show the video the friend gave the video to the mom so they see that he hid himself and that's exactly why the mom thinks that um at least that somebody gave him something yeah or they're not going to dress right because at first they weren't going to show the video because in the videos just made them all look really bad and it's talking about possession who's going to believe possession but then they realize it's like oh they're thinking we did it so we have to show the video um but it's still really really interesting because you're seeing this as either a possible possession or a kid who freaked out who is again we're still talking about um depression and suicide and all this stuff and we have either real possession going on or we have somebody who is so um influenced by what's going on around him that he already had something going on that we don't know about because we don't delve into his personal uh you know feelings or all that before like what was his state of mind other than thinking this is going to be cool to do what was his state of mind going into it was he already dealing with issues of you know mental health um situations going on in his own life yeah but how was he internalizing that? How was he dealing with that? And then was this a break in some kind of uh a mental break or was it possession? Again, that's so fun. It's like you're looking at it from from both points of view. But yeah we have the as the audience we have the luxury of seeing like oh this this is yeah no this is possession this is possession but is a possession that is taking advantage of people's vulnerabilities of of something that's going on in your life for real and then um making a mess out of all that that's true what I found interesting about that that's exactly especially when you have the mother trying to communicate with Mia trying to convince her that what happened was an accident and that she would never want to leave her she's feeding her all the things that she would want to hear that she would want to hear and there there's a part in the movie where the dad is pounding on her door she walked away from the dad goes into the room and the mom says that's not really your dad that you were talking to it's it's one of the the spirits right it's them it's them trying to um mess with you now who is messing with her because she ends up fighting with her dad but her real dad is at the door trying to get into the room and when he comes into the room there's nothing there.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

She's just laying on the ground but the mom is in the room talking to Mia the whole time and so this was wonderful like trick that the mom is playing on her that's that's the only way I can think of calling it a trick because it's a total mind game the dad that's the real dad but who was messing with her in the room was it another spirit or was it the mom messing with her trying to get her to do something we don't know we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Yeah and that's oh that's a it's so that's what it was so frustrating about this movie because it's I love the elements that it's giving as far as like it's confusing you but it's also saying like no it's straight up possession or maybe it's this too but also because I you know I'm coming from it from a point of view that I have uh my own things that I'm going through. So when I'm looking at it too that makes me become more involved and become more like oh man this this really hurts. This is really hard to experience uh in in the movie you know um so that's why I both really enjoyed this movie and also hated it because it's making you feel for real but it's I because I am someone who enjoys these movies to begin with I do like the different uh take at least for me it was that it wasn't straight up just a hundred percent possession it could be maybe something else going on you know like I said these spirits or these demons or these whatever are taking advantage of uh vulnerable spots or little uh cracks in our uh our psyche that's fun yeah yeah I see that and then I was calling it like a like a trick but you could also see it as though the mom was telling the truth the mom is telling the truth this is something that's coming for you and you need to be careful but it's up to our interpretation. So do you are you feeling that Mia is well she's a complicated character, yes. But do you feel like straight up Mia is a bad person because she did this or is it more nuanced than that?

SPEAKER_01 38:44

Because I'm thinking like um I don't know are they trying to make Mia look like the bad guy or oh yes I think I think that I think they're trying to make her look like the bad guy. I think everything turns to her like she was the one who got the brother to um well that was okay with the brother doing this she was the one who was like no don't blow out the candle yet I need to talk to my mother um um when the it it it it all makes her look bad I'm not saying that she's the bad one I'm saying that all makes her makes her look bad and even even talking to her mother and trying to talk to them this is something that they don't even even the the the people who are in the room they don't want to acknowledge that that was the mother they're even telling her it could be anything they could just be messing with you yeah and everything that Mia ends up doing just makes it look worse for her.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Yeah yeah it it is unfortunately um making it to be like she is the I wouldn't say the bad guy but like you know what we've been talking about but it is just she's only 17 18 years old her mom died her mom died two years ago she's still grieving that she's also grieving the fact that she has no idea how her mom died she uh you know mom was an accidental overdose but was it a suicide you know all these things so it's it's more complicated than just saying oh your mom died two years ago there's still a lot of layers to that there's still a lot going on with that and then you invite this opportunity to uh feel better about yourself be a part of the group maybe now potentially you're talking to your mom of course she's only six I mean that's 16 she's only 17 18 years old she's going to be thinking like a bit like oh yeah immediate maybe talk to my mom not what are the consequences of my actions here um so she's not she's not the bad guy she's just a kid that is making decisions on what little bit that she has going on right now it's and it's immediate it's it's you know I want to feel good I want to be included I want to talk to my mom I want to find out the answers to these questions um without thinking of like what's gonna happen to anybody else.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Yes and she's the most vulnerable in the room to begin with that was possessed and then it was Riley because he's the young one and so he's being taken advantage of as well so it's it's the the most vulnerable that are facing all the consequences here that everybody is watching. She is the one that looks like she's losing her mind. And poor Riley's the one who every time he tries to wake up they smash his head against a wall um they're just trying to get him to hurt himself um because they want that sort of thing. Yeah and yeah and it's all it's so sad because he's so young and so is Mia there's no difference between the two of them they're vulnerable for different reasons.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Yeah yeah and you you you perfectly you said it they're both vulnerable for different reasons one is a young innocent kid not saying that she's not young and innocent but in the eyes of whatever the possession is um he's a young innocent kid ooh this is great and then we have um her who has all these pun intended and for lack of better words these inner demons that she has um makes her ripe for um this possession and this possession game that's going on um but so what ends up happening to Mia at the end again obviously we always say it's all spoilers here so at the end of the movie what is your take on what's going on Alma as far as um she obviously is connected where you know as far as the movie goes she's being con she's connected with these spirits somehow now outside of holding onto the hand um and then what happens what are what are we looking at here?

SPEAKER_01 43:49

She's convinced that Riley is possessed and that the only way to free him would be in death. So she sneaks him out of the hospital hospital so that she could basically go throw him in traffic. And she I'd fucked up. Yeah. She push it pushes him in a wheelchair. She goes down, but she had distracted the sister for a little while, but Jade shows up and rushes to the scene. But what we're seeing is the the culmination of all of her feelings, all of her what she believes. Um she is so distraught. She is just completely thinking and she's she believes it to be true that poor Riley's spirit is stuck in limbo with all of these horrible what uh you could say are demons because of the way that she saw him being tortured. And so she thinks she's going to release him. But instead Jade gets there in time and she's the one Mia's the one who ends up getting pushed into traffic after Jade saves her brother and she dies instead and then they show her moving on and that was the most messed up thing because it's like does she really deserve that? Does she really deserve being thrown into traffic and dying the way she did but she was going to throw the the poor kid Riley into the street.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

That is so funny because I saw that completely different. I need to go back and rewatch it then because I thought she jumped into traffic and I thought that she found a moment of uh lucidity where she realized that she was being tricked by the mom and that she was like oh okay this isn't what's actually going on I just need to end this for myself is what I thought happened. Um I need to go back and rewatch it then because it's probably very obviously she gets pushed into traffic and here I am thinking she jumped into traffic.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

So um well I'm seeing this I just assumed I just assumed honestly it happens very quickly I don't think you're going to see anything more than what I saw. I think it basically what I just believed to happen was that she gets there in time and the brother ends up in her arms. So I figured she pushes Mia and then grabs her brother and saves him you know I think I like both versions.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

I'm curious to go back and rewatch that ending part though. Because it still it doesn't change my mind though. It doesn't so um it doesn't change my mind of how this whole movie happened because we're still talking about someone who is very um they're possessed with either if you're thinking about they're either possessed with spirits or they're possessed with their again that that phrase inner demons and I don't mean it like literal inner demons I mean it like she's dealing with her own shit. She this is taking possession over her if we're talking about this from a mental health aspect um that has been her that is her she's young but it could be for anybody of any of a of any age but if you think about it she's young so if she's supposed to be 17 18 years old and she's been without her mom for two years. When you're that age that can be like an eternity and so all she knows is this grief and everything that she's trying to to work through and then it just overtakes her so badly that she's starting to uh um put this on other people now and then she gets to the point where I thought that she realized that oh shit it's not an actual it's not me actually dealing with my shit it's me not being able to deal with my shit. So I am going to continue this road after death too because what ends up happening is that she is now a spirit that gets summoned to possess other people um at the end of it all. She's she's her her soul and her spirit is not resting now after death because she is it because she got held by the demons or is it because she's dealing with her own shit? Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Both I I well from from what from what you're saying I like the way you thought I like it better. And that's a like a weird thing to say I like that you think that she jumped in front of the in front of the vehicles but it's because she also thought she'd killed her father and that's another thing to throw on there that she thinks she killed her father and she doesn't know that he isn't until um after she's dead. She sees that Riley recouped and you know recuperated and um she sees that her dad is walking and can't hear her so that's very obvious that he lived and she gets summoned and then that's like oh you know what? I I like I like thinking I don't like thinking that she took her own life but I like thinking that she took she wasn't going to do it and that she that she wasn't going to kill Riley that she was like you said just had that moment of lucidity I I think that I think that you changed my mind.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Well I could like I said we could end up watching it and we could see her very obviously being pushed into the traffic but like I said I but it still doesn't change how my perception of the movie because from the beginning to the end I feel like this was a um uh spirits taking advantage of cracks in our in our own vulnerabilities you know if I'm going into this situation with my own shit that I'm going through and I haven't been able to deal with that and then I'm inviting something else in yeah that thing is going to be like oh wow this is great let's fuck with her um that's that's the that's the end game for the spirits or for the demons um in this movie as far as I see it um it's not just straight up oh we have these regularly regular people and we're gonna possess them there's it's more it's more complicated than that it's real people with real shit going on in their lives um and then and then we add on this element of supernatural uh forces taking over you and you know where where's the lines are blurred here where's the where's the uh depression and where's the demon um and so that's why I hated it too because is it like saying oh depression is evil no I I had to talk myself out of that because I don't think it's saying that depression is evil I think it's just saying for me personally that depression can take on these forms and that's why unfortunately they are a good subject for horror movies because depression makes us desperate depression makes us um vulnerable depression makes us but it's hard it's hard watching this movie when you're in the thick of it so I would really really uh sit with that beforehand know that this the themes in this movie are really really all about for me as someone who um is in the middle of it I feel like this movie was very on the side of depression um being something that is uh a very very real world demon for a lot of us but I love that you chose this movie because there was a lot of depression I mean a lot of depression there was I don't love that you did that I meant to say that there was a lot of possessions um that that and it's that just goes into how people look at movies differently you saw it as oh this movie has lots of people getting possessed that's fun that's you know that's a great subject matter for us discuss and I'm over here all about sitting on the depression side of it but that's what I that's why I think uh that's why I think these movies are are what I love about movies in general but in in this case this these horror movies that you can it you can come into it with what you need. Do I need this tonight when I'm popping in a movie? Do I need a good laugh? Do I need this? Um you saw it as I want to see a movie about all these different people getting possessed and then I came in completely blind and saw this going through what I'm going through um and saw a completely I want to say completely different movie because when we were talking we seem to you know discuss the same themes and all that um but I came in from a different viewpoint. Um that's fun. I like that I like that we could have this conversation about this movie. Um yeah thank you for introducing it to me like I said it's it's hard I'm not gonna lie it's a hard one but um it is really interesting. I'm not saying it's a great movie um but I do like that it it for me at least it wasn't straightforward that made me think I like that. How about you? How do you uh is is this a movie you I mean you asked to you didn't ask but you suggested it after having watched it already so you you you like this movie. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

And I and I do rec recommend it for the same for the same reasons the the possession side of it the young side of it um now thinking of it with dealing with depression um suicide even I I think that yeah that comes with a heavy trigger warning but the movie itself I think is fascinating enough that it was something that I think a lot of people would enjoy enjoy what's the word no I it's okay because I say that I enjoyed this movie even though it's it's really hard.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

It's a hard movie but it is it is you enjoy it because well at least I did because it is making me think like ooh what what is this? What you know what side am I going to land on at the end? Um and so that a movie that makes me do that instead of being very well sometimes I do want a very uh straightforward movie like no it was straight up demons you know that's that's cool too but I I I think this was this was fun it made it made me think it's making me think and I enjoy that and um I don't care if at the end of the movie she really did get pushed I still like my my what I thought happened at the ending.

SPEAKER_01 56:17

Yeah and if she jumped then me too I still like the movie it was um it it it was different enough too and it had a lot of good creepy moments creepy moments that I really liked.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

Like that eyeball thing when he was trying to take his eyeball that was great that was all practical. Oh that was heinous yeah that that was pretty oh yeah just thinking about that um but yeah so that was um talk to me and we both came at it from different sides I think going in me going in not knowing anything about this movie and Adama being like yeah let's do this um I think this is fun. So thank you for introducing me to this movie and um yeah so we're gonna continue on with the possession theme for the rest of this month. Um we don't have a movie picked out just yet uh but we will come back at it next week oh maybe she does I guess we'll uh discuss it okay I don't know I actually don't know if she has a movie picked out here um okay sorry I just thought that was funny because y'all could see when she how she was doing it so Agma where can people get a hold of us I don't know why I'm laughing at you how can people get a hold of us uh find us on the interwebs uh all our social media that we care to uh share and all that good jazz um you can visit us on our website thegory details podcast dot com on Instagram we're the gory podcast on blue sky we're the gory details and you can visit us on buy me a coffee dot com slash the gory details and that was talk to me this week with talking about possession and uh we'll see y'all next week bye bye